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Derek: [00:00:00] All right, and we’re live. Hey man. Thanks so much for joining me. I am super excited about this episode.
[00:00:11] Andrew: [00:00:11] Likewise. Thanks for having me. It will be fun.
[00:00:13]Derek: [00:00:13] could you kick us off by just telling us your story? How did you end up how’d you get promoted? How did you get here?
[00:00:20] Andrew: [00:00:20] You are now? How far back do I go?
[00:00:22] Third grade high school? Yeah. So I think my trajectory is a little bit different. I didn’t start in sales technically or the startup world. after college, I went to wall street, I think after about four years, I realized that net worth and self worth don’t have to be at odds. And I really wanted to pursue a career where I could, you know, make the money, but also, you know, do good work.
[00:00:44]so as you don’t know, joins dot doc in 2010 and moved into management in 2011,
Derek: [00:00:55] How did you, can you tell us a story of that first promotion? I actually kind of remember when those, when the interviews were happening and so everyone knows, I interviewed for one of the roles and got passed up. They went with you. So why do you think you got promoted? and let’s start with that.
Andrew: [00:01:10] Yeah. I don’t know. I think it’s it’s I racked my brain over this. This is the question. Yeah, I think I did a good job of articulating, you know, that I, that I cared a lot about the business, about growing the organization. I think I was freakishly reliable.
[00:01:25] You know, I was someone that was on time and, and I, and I always hit my numbers. I was never the top performer Derek, as you know, but I was someone that was just incredibly consistent, you know, easy to manage, easy to work with. And I think that allowed me to. To be granted the trust to take over a team. but with, you know, a decade of experience, I was uniquely unqualified and I learned a ton, over the next several months.
Derek: [00:01:51] Yeah. I don’t want to let you undersell yourself too much. You were good. You weren’t just like average. You were pretty, you were a good rep. Yeah, I think none of us were qualified at that at the time.
[00:02:02] I think you’re a good choice, but maybe this is, you can kick us off here. What were some of those first mistakes that you made? the big, like ouch moments.
Andrew: [00:02:13] Yeah. I mean, there was so many, I think the biggest one is coaching, right? Like so much of a job of a frontline manager is coaching. And that’s exhausting too, whether it’s an SDR team and account executive team and. You know, I think when you’re a new manager, you’re so reliant on that you did the job effectively and, and just do as I do.
[00:02:33] Right. But that, you know, is not a scalable way to build a high performing team. you wouldn’t coach the Lakers the same way you’d coach a high school JV team. and I think that’s the biggest mistake I made was I was just, and probably a lot of managers make, is, you know, I coached in a way that was just way too broad, but wasn’t skill level appropriate.
[00:02:51] I didn’t really get to know the, the, the learning styles of the team members that I was managing. and I think the challenge is, you know, I was autodidactic right. Like I taught myself if whatever the job, the product was, you know, I would read all the books and, and that’s not everyone’s style. and I think I failed in probably, or struggled with not understanding that people learn different ways.
[00:03:12] They learn at different speeds. And the last thing I would say on that is, not being reliant on just shadowing top performers, right? Like that’s the complacent way to, to upskill a rep is just go shadow with Jane. She’s really good. You wouldn’t learn the guitar by listening to tears in heaven, by Eric Clapton.
[00:03:30] You know, you learn each individual note until you can string together a song. And I think I just, if I could go back in time, I would have been far more skill level appropriate with my coaching, use the scalpel instead of a hatchet and really understood how does my team, you know, learn and develop.
Derek: [00:03:46] Can you talk a little about how you would have done that and I’m particularly interested in how would you, or how have you, uncovered people’s learning styles?
Andrew: [00:03:57] Yeah, I think I would start with this notion that no one cares how much you know, until they know that you care. And that was very humbling messages as you grow as a manager, that, that I learned that I just figured because you know, I’m credible, right. I have the title and I, and I did the job. People are gonna listen to me and that’s just so antithetical to human nature.
[00:04:17] Like we actually don’t listen to that. we know we listened to people and we, and we start to trust people, and, you know, share and, reach out for help. When we know that person cares about us as a human and has, you know, your own best interests at heart. And I’ve struggled with that, I think, early on so one of the things I would have done differently is really have longer one to ones where I really got to know the team. What are their aspirations? What do they want to accomplish? You know, questions like let’s, what was your best sales calls last week? What was your worst? What are the biggest time wasters for you?
[00:04:47] And just trying to find little things. To add credibility to help them, in order to build that trust. Cause then once you have that trust, there’s just so much more that you can accomplish, versus the model of just, Hey, just do this and you’ll make a lot of money.
Derek: [00:04:59] Yeah. Okay. What, well, I guess let’s go a little bit earlier. What made you decide that you want to manage people?
Andrew: [00:05:09] Ego a hundred percent. Why you do it? You’re in your twenties. You’re not thinking long term. You want the promotion. You want the recognition. You know, I joked that it was the best pay cut I ever got, you know, I wanted, you know, the all hands, Friday announcement, our new manager is Andrew Weiss, it was all ego.
But then what you quickly learn is, is that, you know, you really have to unmoor yourself from that to be a successful manager, you really have to operate without ego because you know, the livelihoods of other folks are dependent on your ability to help them. and, it was driven, the catalyst was ego, but I quickly realized that I have to suspend that part of my persona if I’m going to be good at this.
[00:05:49] So I did.
Derek: [00:05:51] How did you do that?
Andrew: [00:05:53] I think just really understanding the difference between a manager and a leader, right? Like. A manager is, is a title. but a leader is someone that comes from a place of empathy, that that really cares, you know, about the business, the people, the team, you know, the person, if you’re in a zoom room, make it apropos to the times, and there’s 12 people on the meeting, you know, the true leader, isn’t the highest ranking person on that zoom.
[00:06:15] And the true leader might not even have a manager title. The true leader is the person on that meeting that is poised. That’s empathetic. That’s curious, that knows they don’t have all the answers that doesn’t operate with this arrogant certitude that they know what’s best. and I think I really shed that by just being super curious, knowing what I don’t know, I’m reaching out to others for help, and owning my mistakes.
[00:06:38] And I think it was an evolution. It didn’t happen overnight. but you know, now I think I’m such a more sophisticated leader because I operate from a place of empathy and curiosity and knowing that there’s a lot I don’t know.
Derek: [00:06:51] How do you, you know, as I think about my, my career as a leader, I feel like I often, if I really stop to think about it would know the right thing to do, but doing it in the moment in the, in the whirlwind of, of the job is challenging.
[00:07:07] Do you have tips for people who are in that situation?
Andrew: [00:07:12] Yeah, I think one is it’s not your job to manage everything. It’s just your job to make sure everything gets managed. And as a new manager, you really don’t want to let people down. And, you know, you know, this competitive and this pride and this responsibility that’s been bestowed on you and you want to do it all.
[00:07:28] And the reality is it’s just, it’s not possible. And there’re areas you’re going to be weak. and there’s gonna be areas that you struggle. And I think. What I do more now than I ever did 10 years ago is just identify, Hey, I’m not great at this one thing, finding someone else in the org. That’s good.
[00:07:44] Would that get a weekly one to one with them and constantly just brain share and understand like how they go about thinking about something that I’m weak at. So I think. You know, from an execution standpoint, it can vary. But what just conceptually, knowing that you are limited, that you can’t solve everything nor do you have to.
[00:08:01]and it’s really just your job to delegate and identify the resources within the org that can help you drive change that ultimately lead to building a high performing team.
Derek: [00:08:12] Right. I love that. That’s excellent. What, what was the hardest thing for you for you about going from individual contributor to manager?
Andrew: [00:08:22] Yeah. It’s a really thoughtful question. I think what I think sometimes the attributes that lead to being an individual contributor are antithetical to being a great manager. And so it’s less about the change of the roles and the responsibilities. I think, you know, if you’re a smart, hardworking guy, which clearly we both are, that’s easy, you know, you’ll figure that out, but it’s more about the paradigm shift of, you know, knowing that now there’s this cascading, you know, impact of the decisions that I make, that they don’t just, you know, affect me and my W2, right. That I make a change and, you know, seven, eight people’s income could potentially be affected. and really just, I think the hardest part was just really understanding that, like I’m not making a decision for one anymore and that other people are going to be impacted.
And the business itself too, like I’m a, you know, I am the custodian of the valuation of the business in terms of what I’m managing and every decision that I make, am I helping the organization grow? I think those things you just, it’s really hard to look at the forest from the trees, but you really have to, when, when you move from individual contributor to a management role,
Derek: [00:09:29] I really hear you on the, the jobs really seem to be opposite of each other, which makes it crazy to me that we tend to promote, or in, out in the world, people tend to promote the top rep to manager, give them no training of what it means to be a manager, and then act surprised when there’s failure. So anyways, so let’s do really strange. And I think at this point you’ve had the opportunity to manage managers. Have you promoted people into that seat?
[00:10:04] And if so, what have you seen those, recently promoted managers struggle with,
Andrew: [00:10:18] I think the biggest thing is communication. Yeah, communication is a proxy for intelligence. I think it’s a, it’s the only way you can effectively drive change and get things that your team needs.
[00:10:30] That’s going to help them make more money. And the biggest challenge I’ve seen someone that goes from top performing account executive to frontline manager is communication. You know, the other thing is Derek, you know, you’re communicating in different directions now. You know, as a sales rep, obviously you’re communicating with the prospects and the clients, but you’re really only communication internally is with your manager.
[00:10:51] Right. Then all of a sudden you become a manager and you’re communicating with sideways with people in sales, ops, and marketing, you’re communicating upward to your director or VP. Who’s going to be more sophisticated and expect more. And also you’re managing down and you’re communicating to your team members.
[00:11:07] And so you quickly have to learn how to communicate with different folks in an effective way. and I think the biggest area I’ve seen new measures struggle is how they communicate. internally in meetings. and, that’s where I was as a, as a director of managing managers, I would spend a lot of my time just, you know, helping people figure out that, Hey, like your perception is, is basically as important as how you communicate.
[00:11:30] And this is how you speak to people to get things done, in a much in an area where there’s a lot more heat and light on, on what you’re doing.
Derek: [00:11:38] So how should somebody, by the way, also communicating with peers. Other managers, other teams are those should a new manager or a manager generally communicate with each of those stakeholders in different ways?
[00:11:54] Or what can you recommend to somebody?
Andrew: [00:11:57] Yeah, I recommend, and something I built out for newly hired managers, comparably is, is this, you know, a listening tour. And it’s just preset questions, you know, nothing too crazy. It’s, it’s, you know, 10, 12 questions, where you go around and you just ascertain as much information as you can early on from how are other managers going about, you know, leading their teams.
[00:12:17] Right. and what you, what this process really does invoke is this notion that like, people are doing things differently, but there’s these areas you can learn from even the worst performing team. I guarantee you, there’s something that their manager’s doing that’s really interesting. That’s unique that you can apply.
[00:12:33] And that’s kind of how I operate it. I was always just trying to add as many arrows to my professional quiver as possible. And I didn’t care what your title was, what you were doing, how long you’ve been managing. I didn’t care about any of that. I just wanted to learn, find something I could learn from every single person in New York.
[00:12:48]and then that way I’m this eclectic, you know, well-rounded manager, that, you know, also has the ancillary benefit of, of creating these relationships with these other folks, you know, in New York. definitely something I struggled with as a new manager that, you know, I would train people on, you know, that recently got promoted.
Derek: [00:13:05] Could you share those, those questions maybe as a signed document or something? I’ll put it in the show notes.
[00:13:10]Andrew: [00:13:10] I’d have to pull it up, but yeah, I’m happy to get that over.
[00:13:13] Derek: [00:13:13] Cool. I appreciate that. It’s really important. I feel like when stepping into a new role, my biggest fear has always been not knowing what I don’t know, the, the unknown unknowns, so yeah. Anyway, that’d be really helpful. so then, so then the flip side here, what’s your super power or what. Either are you really, really good at, or what have you always been good at as a leader?
Andrew: [00:13:45] I mean, I think, I think I’ve done a good job of the, of the motivation piece. I think that came very easily to me and has probably been the one, maybe fixed component, you know, success, as we all know is not linear and there’s ups and downs and you learn trials and tribulations, I think where I’ve always excelled is, I can get a bunch of different types of people from different backgrounds, different levels of experience and expertise, and really get them to rally around, you know, one, one vision, you know, one of my favorite quotes is you want someone to build a boat, you know, you don’t give them wood in the yard, you teach them to yearn for the sea.
[00:14:21] So find something, some sort of North star that the team can rally around some sort of vision and get that buy in. And I think. That’s something I’ve been really fortunate to get in. I’ve managed tons of different types of teams, a tons of different types of folks and, you know, getting them to just really buy into a system where like, Hey, we’re going to do this and we’re going to do this consistently and effectively for a long period.
Derek: [00:14:44] Can you tell us more about that? Like what, what’s an example of a, of a sea that you’ve taught people to yearn for and how did you do it?
Andrew: [00:14:53] Yeah. I think when I was at zocdoc, when I moved back from Phoenix to take over the, the New York field sales team, you know, already a high performing team. So definitely a challenge as a relatively new manager in my career that I wasn’t going to achieve credibility by helping them close deals.
[00:15:10] Right. This was a team that was very sophisticated, older profile, mid thirties, and selling a long time. but you know, I identify. You know, areas where they felt that they were mercenaries, right. That they didn’t, they were hired guns. They didn’t feel like the work that they were doing was directly aligned with the needs of the business.
[00:15:30] And I was able to kind of successfully reframe and reshape their relationship with, with the business itself, you know, get them bought in. And those quite frankly, that had no interest in that. You know, didn’t last very long. And I was able to bring in a lot of folks from the inside sales team, you know, give them ostensibly what was the promotion to work on it on a field sales team and we ended up with this awesome team of 13 people, rallying around this notion that the work we’re doing is actually going to build this incredible health tech startup. We’re all shareholders that made it a lot easier at the time. And that team went on to be, you know, president’s club two years in a row, top team out of 16, and was just, you know, a ton of fun, you know, working with a bunch of different people that when I took over, we’re kind of disenfranchised one foot out the door.
[00:16:14] And six months later, you know, we’re winning rep of the quarter, presidents club.
Derek: [00:16:19] That’s an interesting turnaround. I think turn around is the right word to use, even though the team was really successful because you turned around the team’s attitude towards, towards what they were doing. I think, well, I didn’t always realize where the different stages that teams could be at, right.
[00:16:39] Could already be an existing successful team or a brand new team or whatever. What did you do in those six months? Or how did you kick it off to, to turn those attitudes around?
Andrew: [00:16:50] Yeah, I think this is one tool that I have in my shed that is so unused. And if you know, the listeners take away anything from our time together, it would be to ascertain feedback from your direct reports.
[00:17:03] You know, that had never had that happened up until I was their manager. You know, I understand that I’ve had probably, I don’t know, 30 bosses in my career at this point, I’ve maybe had to ask me for feedback on how they’re doing, why you’re spending 70% of them, your time with your direct reports, who better to give you feedback and the devil’s advocate argument to this.
[00:17:25] It’s like, yeah, but are they going to give you actual feedback? And I would say, I would say, is it going to be, you know, sanitized and watered down because of fear of retribution. There’s w to circumvent that, there’s one model I read about the SSC model with feedback, where you sitting here, you know, one-to-one with your rep and you say, Hey, what should I start doing, stop doing and continue doing. And this says a lubricant to an otherwise tough discussion, but you know, once a month I would sit in a one-to-one and this will be mandatory. and I would demand feedback from my team. I need to know where I’m helping you, where I’m hurting you, where I’m having a benign impact on your career.
[00:17:58] And, you know, the, the, when I first did this with this team of 13, you know, disenfranchised folks, like their eyes lit up, you know, it was like, they were like a kid on Christmas. No one had ever asked him. Hey, like, how do you feel about your manager? and so that’s the ancillary benefit. Not only do you get you some of the best, most impactful, long lasting feedback I’ve ever been given wasn’t from a CEO, it was from a direct report, a sales person.
[00:18:20] I was managing an SDR who told me something. Wow. I really needed to hear that. I didn’t know I was doing that. and the other benefit is that your team is now empowered. You know, they know they have a voice and they’re hurt and you’re not gonna be able to get, you know, change everything or get everything they want.
[00:18:33] Obviously you have to level set on expectations, but. You know, I am constantly astounded by how little people ask their direct reports for feedback on how they’re doing. and I think that was a massive, you know, when, for me, when, when I took over that New York team,
Derek: [00:18:49] Yeah. I didn’t even realize that that was rare. I’ve done this via Google forms, which may be not everybody believes that that’s necessarily anonymous or private. I can’t imagine something more important. That’s excellent. Okay. What advice can you give, around managing a team of people who were your peers now you’ve been promoted?
[
Andrew: [00:19:14] Yeah, I think that’s always tough and a little bit awkward. but I think really what it comes down to is just incentive alignment. You know, if your goals are the same, then, really the relationship can continue to manifest and grow.
[00:19:30] And I think it also just, I know this is probably thematic to everything I’m saying, but just operating without ego, you know, I got promoted, I got a title change and my W2 might look a little bit differently this year, but like we’re in this together, like ostensibly, right? Like we have to look at this as we’re all just trying to grow a business.
[00:19:47] That’s when you, that’s why you’re in the startup world, hopefully that’s why you’re in sales or sales leadership. And just really kind of over optimizing on the areas where you’re aligned and things are, and, you know, kind of ignoring the title part. You know, I hate being called a manager. I, I, I’ve never been a big, you know, fan of like closed door meetings and things like that.
[00:20:11] And also just empowering, you know, the team to own different things. Like one of things I’ve always done. And my management styles, I’ve never run like an hour long meeting. Just me, just me talking for an hour. no one wants to hear that. you know, identifying like, Hey, like we were peers, one of the things that you did really awesome, that I loved, you know, selling alongside of you, you know, with was, you know, the way that you prospect that you were really good at prospecting in our Monday morning kickoff meeting.
[00:20:36] I want you to own the prospecting plan for the week, empower them, you know, start to give them the tools and responsibility. So when, if they get that title promotion, You know, they’ve already been doing a part of the job. so just identifying people’s strengths, embracing them, you know, giving them an opportunity where, you know, they don’t feel like they were shut out and, and you know, that they’re checked out or disenfranchised.
[00:20:55] But again, if you come to the workplace without operating from ego every day, I don’t think that’s as much of an obstacle in reality.
Derek: [00:21:06] cool. So like, don’t, don’t be afraid of it.
[00:21:08] Andrew: [00:21:08] Yeah, or just don’t even really care about it. You know, like when I come to a meeting, I come to the workplace every day, I’m just, I’m trying to help a business grow. That’s what we’re doing. Right. That’s why we get paid to do what we do. And, yeah. I, I think these, these titles matter too, I guess to a point, cause it’s a level set. It helps earning potential for a future employer, but really what are we talking about here? It’s not the end all be all. It’s not what makes you valuable in an organization?
Derek: [00:21:35] Great. what are the things that you, that you like, or that you love about being a leader?
[00:21:42] Andrew: [00:21:42] So cliche, but I don’t think I’ve used a cliche yet. So I get one per for podcasts
[00:21:46] Derek: [00:21:46] that works.
[00:21:47] Andrew: [00:21:47] I think for me, it’s, it’s the people, you know, this is the joke that I always make. Derek is like, if you said 2013, let’s just pick a random year in my career.
[00:21:55] Right? Could not tell you within. A significant range, what my W2 was that year. But I can tell you the name of the team members that I managed. I can tell you what we accomplished, you know, why we accomplished it, the fun that we had together. that’s, that’s why you do it. You know, it is stressful. It’s hard, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re taking three feet of hill and you’re losing two feet the next day.
[00:22:17] Sales management is a constant struggle. but it’s, you know, you just, you’re a part of something bigger than yourself. I’ll get a LinkedIn message. You know, once in a while from a colleague, someone I managed for six months, five years ago, that something, I thought some innocuous comment I made in a team meeting three years ago, helped them land a promotion, help them close a big deal, help them find joy and happiness in their jobs.
[00:22:39]I mean, that’s, that’s what it’s all about. That gets me far more excited than my biweekly direct deposit. so it’s really all, this is a game of people, ministry of, of, of, you know, being a part of a team. And I love that part of it. I really do. Yeah.
Derek: [00:22:53] Money is temporary experiences are forever.
[00:22:56] Andrew: [00:22:56] I could have just said that that would have been, easier.
[00:23:02]Derek: [00:23:02] we’ve got a question from the audience,
[00:23:04]Steven maybe it’s Steven and not Stephan, but says with regards to changing the paradigm of a performing team, Are there more people who are more interested in the mercenary aspect instead of rallying behind the star. And is there a place for those people on the team or will it ultimately be too detrimental?
Andrew: [00:23:25] Yeah, that’s a great question. The answer is absolutely there’s a place for those, those types of folks on the team. You know, I would say with the one limitation that it doesn’t extend to the point where it’s, they’re all about themselves and then you get into this world of like deal poaching and if it becomes toxic, Obviously that, that’s a major problem, but the answer is absolutely, you know, I think one of the cool things about managing a team is you realize it’s like, wow, everyone has a different why everyone’s, why is so fundamentally different.
[00:23:54] And if someone’s, why is, Hey, I want to make a ton of money. I want a ton of freedom and this is where you can help me. So be it, you can absolutely build a great team, you know, around, I mean, in my experience that tends to be a little bit more rare and I think that’s actually changing more and more as sales is evolving and it’s becoming more of a listening customer service type, industry.
[00:24:16] That is becoming more rare. but there’s always a place for people like that on the team. But I think what you’ll find is most people actually, they aren’t coin operated. they care a lot more about, you know, the company, their, their work life balance, the things that make them happy, then they do about their, their, you know, W2 or their earning potential.
[00:24:35]but yeah, I think the short answer is, yeah, there’s absolutely room for people like that on the team.
Derek: [00:24:41] And I don’t want to put words in your mouth from this one, Andrew. But my experience is that very rarely are people truly driven by money.
[00:24:50] Andrew: [00:24:50] Yeah.
[00:24:50] Derek: [00:24:50] Money’s important. You got to pay the bills. You’ve got rent, you’ve got vacations, but most people will drive a lot more motivation from advancement or, you know, the recognition that like being good, having impact and money correlates with those things. But it’s not the reason I show up every day, which isn’t to say, it’s not okay to like have a job because you need to pay bills
Andrew: [00:25:17] could not agree more. My theory is money matters to the level where they’re making enough, where they’re not worried about money.
[00:25:26] But beyond that, it’s not gonna, it’s not a motivator. It’s not, you know, there’s a lot of antiquated notions of, you know, you pay people a bunch of money and they’ll do it. They’ll work, you know, 13 hour days. It’s just not true. so I, I agree with that sentiment. And I think recognition is probably a massively underutilized, lever to pull, to motivate people.
[00:25:46] I mean, it was the reason why I wanted the sales manager thing. I knew I was going to make less money. I, but I wanted my name on a PowerPoint slide for the whole company. We are very motivated as humans, by being acknowledged and recognized. And there’s so many cool things you can do as a manager to, to give that, to, you know, afford that to your team.
[00:26:05] Whereas, you know, budgets are finite and you can’t give a rep a raise every six months, but you can absolutely find ways to recognize the hard work that they’re doing.
Derek: [00:26:15] Yeah, it didn’t. Didn’t Andrew Carnegie say something about. The desire to feel important is one of the ultimate drivers of mankind.
[00:26:24] Andrew: [00:26:24] I’m not familiar with it, but I would absolutely agree with the sentiment in my school.
[00:26:28] Derek: [00:26:28] I’m going to claim it. I’m going to say that it’s a Derekism.
[00:26:32] Andrew: [00:26:32] He’s been gone a long time. I don’t think he’ll mind.
Derek: [00:26:37] What’s what, all right, Andrew, what’s something you think that our listeners can do today to improve their chances of getting promoted or getting closer to that. Even that next leadership gig
[00:26:49] Andrew: [00:26:49] manage up. Derisk the decision for your manager. Right. Like I, I, and it’s so easy to do this and I just did this naturally. and I try to teach this to reps on my team currently that want to be managers one day, like. You know, I would send a weekly proactively without being asked to give your boss is asking for something you already dropped the ball, like proactively sending, you know, a weekly update, quantitative qualitative.
[00:27:16] Here’s my weekend review. Here’s my focus. Here’s where I need your help. Here are the opportunities in my pipeline. Here are the obstacles, like, you know, over communicate and make their job easier. Like, you know, I we’ve, you know, Derek we’ve been in these rooms, we’ve made decisions on who are we going to promote to be a manager?
[00:27:32] We never chose the top performer that also is going to create a lot more work for us because they’re terrible communicators or because they’re sloppy with Salesforce hygiene or because they’re, you know, they constantly are late or take off like, you know, I, I think a lot of the reasons for my promotions in my career center has been, I am the easiest person to manage.
[00:27:54] I will get things done. I’ve never been late. I don’t take time off unless I’m going on vacation. And I just take a ton of pride in the little things you do, like a proactive email once a week, letting know, letting your manager know exactly where you stand. And, when there’s a new initiative, if that isn’t favorable for the sales org, a new policy, you know, not being the dissenter in the room and just saying like, okay, you know what, I’m not going to die on every Hill.
[00:28:17] This isn’t going to change my ability to earn a living. Let’s just go with it. And I think every single rep okay. And benefit from just managing up more. Really taking ownership and making the relationship. You know, there’s a great book. I recommend everyone read the first 90 it’s on you to make the relationship work with your boss, to learn their communication style, how they like to get things done.
[00:28:38] And, and we ask, you know, and I think, again, you can do that when you stop working from a place of ego, which is the first learning you’ll have as a manager. so that would be my recommendation to folks that want to get promoted,
[00:28:51]Derek: [00:28:51] that’s really good shit. Any, as you dig through your experience, any other advice that you can give to first time managers or mistakes that you made, that you can warn people about?
[00:29:06] Andrew: [00:29:06] I mean, I made them all like that. We need another hour. yeah, I think beyond just the ego stuff and, you know, really look at the data and, but also not being overly relying on the data. Like I was, I had a client during my consultancy in San Francisco, and then they made a great point about like using the data to drive like the qualitative, right, like left brain, right.
[00:29:27] Brain discussions. And cause you can be overly relying on data and sometimes the data can misrepresent the actual narrative of what’s happening. Right. so really getting underneath the hood and understanding the data, but not becoming monolithic and actually allowing that data to drive qualitative decisions.
[00:29:42] Like, you know, I’m seeing this, this, and this. And then when I combine this metric with this call, I just listened to, this is what I actually think is going on. so using data to drive decisions, but, but not being handcuffed by it, so to speak. And then the other thing I would just like really interesting that your people are your asset.
[00:29:59] You work for them, this isn’t, you know, 1928, we’re not building the model T where you have reductionist principles, style of management, where, you know, I say this and you do that. You know, it’s a bunch of really smart folks in a room trying to grow a business and. You know, really working for your team.
[00:30:15] I’m a huge, you know, servant leader, and understanding that if you get buy in from these people, if you can get a lot out of, you know, a medium performer, then a, an entitled top performer who doesn’t like your style.
[00:30:25] Derek: [00:30:25] excellent man. Been really helpful. Thanks for letting us draw near experience. I mean, this is going to be really, really good for anyone in their first couple of years, managing appreciate you coming out.
[00:30:38] Andrew: [00:30:38] I appreciate it, man. Thanks for having me.
